Discussion:
Grateful exit
(too old to reply)
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard
2010-03-10 20:28:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<blockquote cite="mid:***@mst.edu"
type="cite">
<p wrap="">There are utilities and scripting languages that can send
keystrokes to a window. <br>
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Only in a newsgroup like <code>alt.msdos.batch.nt</code> would this
madness be the answer that everyone concentrates upon.</p>
<p>There's a perfectly good window message, <code>WM_SYSCOMMAND</code>
with <code>SC_CLOSE</code> as the parameter, that unambiguously means
"close the window", without all of the mucking around trying to work
out what keystrokes will invoke what on an application's menu to get it
to think that the user has commanded a close.&nbsp; And there's no shortage
of command-line tools for sending such a message (or <code>WM_CLOSE</code>),
from <a href="http://nirsoft.net./utils/nircmd.html">NirCmd</a> to the
<a href="http://beyondlogic.org./consulting/processutil/processutil.htm"><code>process</code>
utility from Beyond Logic</a>.&nbsp; JP Software's TCC even has a built-in
command for doing this: <a href="http://jpsoft.com./help/activate.htm"><code>ACTIVATE</code></a>,
with the <code>CLOSE</code> option.<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard
2010-03-11 11:25:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<blockquote
cite="mid:JO2dneFvX_SwgAXWnZ2dnUVZ_v-***@posted.internetamerica"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote cite="mid:***@mst.edu"
type="cite">
<p>There are utilities and scripting languages that can send
keystrokes to a window. </p>
</blockquote>
<p>Only in a newsgroup like <code>alt.msdos.batch.nt</code> would
this
madness be the answer that everyone concentrates upon.</p>
<p>There's a perfectly good window message, <code>WM_SYSCOMMAND</code>
with <code>SC_CLOSE</code> as the parameter, that unambiguously means
"close the window", without all of the mucking around trying to work
out what keystrokes will invoke what on an application's menu to get it
to think that the user has commanded a close.&nbsp; And there's no shortage
of command-line tools for sending such a message (or <code>WM_CLOSE</code>),
from
<a href="http://nirsoft.net./utils/nircmd.html">NirCmd</a> to the
<a
href="http://beyondlogic.org./consulting/processutil/processutil.htm"><code>process</code>
utility from Beyond Logic</a>.&nbsp; JP Software's TCC even has a built-in
command for doing this: <a href="http://jpsoft.com./help/activate.htm"><code>ACTIVATE</code></a>,
with
the <code>CLOSE</code> option.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I guess it depends on what it means to gracefully exit the
application.
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>M. Devin was looking for something that was "a better way" than
"forcibly kill[ing]" a "GUI application" using tools like <code>pskill</code>
or <code>taskkill</code> to terminate the process.&nbsp; As can be seen
from the plethora of tools that exist (The three mentioned are not the
only tools that can send these window messages.&nbsp; There are yet more of
them, including an unimaginitively named <code>wm_close</code>
utility, for example.&nbsp; I just stopped after three.), xe's far from
being the first person to want this sort of thing, and the rest of the
world isn't stuck with the DOS Think that poking keystrokes into Win32
applications is the only way that command-line tools can speak to them.</p>
<blockquote
cite="mid:JO2dneFvX_SwgAXWnZ2dnUVZ_v-***@posted.internetamerica"
type="cite">
<p>(I keep thinking of the Grateful Dead when I see this thread's
Subject text.)
</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I had similar problems.&nbsp; (-:</p>
</body>
</html>
Ted Davis
2010-03-11 13:42:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html>
usenet is an ASCII medium - HTML is *not* appreciated, and for many
people is unreadable.
--
T.E.D. (***@mst.edu)
Tim Meddick
2010-03-11 19:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In answer to Mr "Ted Davis" -

If you can't view or read this post because of which format it's in - don't worry about it! - feel free to ignore it, you were born free to do so, just as I was born free to post it whatever way I see fit!......

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
Post by Ted Davis
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html>
usenet is an ASCII medium - HTML is *not* appreciated, and for many
people is unreadable.
--
Ted Davis
2010-03-11 21:20:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Meddick
In answer to Mr "Ted Davis" -
If you can't view or read this post because of which format it's in -
don't worry about it! - feel free to ignore it, you were born free to do
so, just as I was born free to post it whatever way I see fit!......
Ploink!

--
T.E.D. (***@mst.edu)
Sjouke Burry
2010-03-11 23:08:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Meddick
In answer to Mr "Ted Davis" -
cut
Post by Tim Meddick
don't worry about it! - feel free to ignore it,
you were born free to do so, just as I was born free
to post it whatever way I see fit!......
Yes, aint we all glad that you are free to behave as an
asocial nitwit!!! Freedom rules.

plonk
Tim Meddick
2010-03-12 20:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Yes, indeed, my very good friend.

I am "asocial" because I dare to defy some unwritten rule.

And some self-appointed enforcers decide that people who break said rule will be
insulted, mocked and otherwise treated as shamefully as possible, and to someone they
never even met...

I am glad I am "asocial" if to gain your praise I have to be a mindless follower of
nonsensical etiquette and stop thinking for myself altogether.

At least I don't call people I haven't met names or deride or insult them.

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)

P.S. (for anyone else watching this idiotic banter I have lowered myself to
entertain, the "crime" I am being pilloried for is to create a post using html on
"their" newsgroup...)
Post by Sjouke Burry
Post by Tim Meddick
In answer to Mr "Ted Davis" -
cut
Post by Tim Meddick
don't worry about it! - feel free to ignore it,
you were born free to do so, just as I was born free
to post it whatever way I see fit!......
Yes, aint we all glad that you are free to behave as an
asocial nitwit!!! Freedom rules.
plonk
Todd Vargo
2010-03-12 23:28:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Meddick
Yes, indeed, my very good friend.
I am "asocial" because I dare to defy some unwritten rule.
And some self-appointed enforcers decide that people who break said rule will be
insulted, mocked and otherwise treated as shamefully as possible, and to someone they
never even met...
I am glad I am "asocial" if to gain your praise I have to be a mindless follower of
nonsensical etiquette and stop thinking for myself altogether.
At least I don't call people I haven't met names or deride or insult them.
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
P.S. (for anyone else watching this idiotic banter I have lowered myself to
entertain, the "crime" I am being pilloried for is to create a post using html on
"their" newsgroup...)
You have been directed to reasonable and sensible netiquette materials
several times and yet you have the audacity to clame it unwritten. But to go
the extra steps to defy it and claim it nonsensical is unconscionable. Had
this been a moderated group your account would have been
terminated long ago.

BTW, responding to a plonk is nonsensical because the plonker can no longer
see your responses.

PLONK!
Post by Tim Meddick
Post by Sjouke Burry
Post by Tim Meddick
In answer to Mr "Ted Davis" -
cut
Post by Tim Meddick
don't worry about it! - feel free to ignore it,
you were born free to do so, just as I was born free
to post it whatever way I see fit!......
Yes, aint we all glad that you are free to behave as an
asocial nitwit!!! Freedom rules.
plonk
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ***@netfront.net ---
Al Dunbar
2010-03-13 00:26:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
All this talk of rules is somewhat beside the point. The reason for the
rules in the first place still exists: some usenet participants do so using
text-based tools that do not render the html into what one would see in a
browser. Or in an html aware client. Others set their newsreaders to work in
text only mode because they are more interested in the information than its
presentation.

I think what others might have been trying to get at is that if you post in
such a way that bothers people, well, what is the benefit to that?


/Al
Post by Tim Meddick
Yes, indeed, my very good friend.
I am "asocial" because I dare to defy some unwritten rule.
And some self-appointed enforcers decide that people who break said rule will be
insulted, mocked and otherwise treated as shamefully as possible, and to someone they
never even met...
I am glad I am "asocial" if to gain your praise I have to be a mindless follower of
nonsensical etiquette and stop thinking for myself altogether.
At least I don't call people I haven't met names or deride or insult them.
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
P.S. (for anyone else watching this idiotic banter I have lowered myself to
entertain, the "crime" I am being pilloried for is to create a post using html on
"their" newsgroup...)
Post by Sjouke Burry
Post by Tim Meddick
In answer to Mr "Ted Davis" -
cut
Post by Tim Meddick
don't worry about it! - feel free to ignore it,
you were born free to do so, just as I was born free
to post it whatever way I see fit!......
Yes, aint we all glad that you are free to behave as an
asocial nitwit!!! Freedom rules.
plonk
Tim Meddick
2010-03-14 21:55:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Well exactly! I certainly was not posting for the benefit of all those who decided
to respond negatively, but it simply irked me the way in which [some] people jumped
all over a respondent just because he used <html> to create his post!

They were less than courteous IMHO.

So I wrote ONE post, also in <html>, in support, and got all this for my trouble (at
least I got them off the original respondent's back).

It just gets me down, now and then, to see how acidulous people can be...

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
All this talk of rules is somewhat beside the point. The reason for the rules in
the first place still exists: some usenet participants do so using text-based tools
that do not render the html into what one would see in a browser. Or in an html
aware client. Others set their newsreaders to work in text only mode because they
are more interested in the information than its presentation.
I think what others might have been trying to get at is that if you post in such a
way that bothers people, well, what is the benefit to that?
/Al
Post by Tim Meddick
Yes, indeed, my very good friend.
I am "asocial" because I dare to defy some unwritten rule.
And some self-appointed enforcers decide that people who break said rule will be
insulted, mocked and otherwise treated as shamefully as possible, and to someone they
never even met...
I am glad I am "asocial" if to gain your praise I have to be a mindless follower of
nonsensical etiquette and stop thinking for myself altogether.
At least I don't call people I haven't met names or deride or insult them.
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
P.S. (for anyone else watching this idiotic banter I have lowered myself to
entertain, the "crime" I am being pilloried for is to create a post using html on
"their" newsgroup...)
Post by Sjouke Burry
Post by Tim Meddick
In answer to Mr "Ted Davis" -
cut
Post by Tim Meddick
don't worry about it! - feel free to ignore it,
you were born free to do so, just as I was born free
to post it whatever way I see fit!......
Yes, aint we all glad that you are free to behave as an
asocial nitwit!!! Freedom rules.
plonk
Al Dunbar
2010-03-15 00:01:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Meddick
Well exactly! I certainly was not posting for the benefit of all those
who decided to respond negatively, but it simply irked me the way in which
[some] people jumped all over a respondent just because he used <html> to
create his post!
For the reasons I gave, it is generally the case that html posts can expect
to receive negative feedback. Ted's response was terse and to the point, but
I did not find it particularly disrespectful.
Post by Tim Meddick
They were less than courteous IMHO.
They could have perhaps been *more* courteous. But then you could have too.
Perhaps you should have taken your own advice, as you were "free to ignore"
what they said that you didn't like, were you not?
Post by Tim Meddick
So I wrote ONE post, also in <html>, in support, and got all this for my
trouble (at least I got them off the original respondent's back).
No you didn't. There has only been one reply to the original respondent. Had
nobody reacted to Ted's response, I suspect that nothing further would have
been said on the matter. Anyone agreeing with Ted (myself included) would
have just let his comment stand.
Post by Tim Meddick
It just gets me down, now and then, to see how acidulous people can be...
And fighting acidulousness with acidulousness is your way to correct this,
then? ;-)

/Al
Post by Tim Meddick
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
Post by Al Dunbar
All this talk of rules is somewhat beside the point. The reason for the
rules in the first place still exists: some usenet participants do so
using text-based tools that do not render the html into what one would
see in a browser. Or in an html aware client. Others set their
newsreaders to work in text only mode because they are more interested in
the information than its presentation.
I think what others might have been trying to get at is that if you post
in such a way that bothers people, well, what is the benefit to that?
/Al
Post by Tim Meddick
Yes, indeed, my very good friend.
I am "asocial" because I dare to defy some unwritten rule.
And some self-appointed enforcers decide that people who break said rule will be
insulted, mocked and otherwise treated as shamefully as possible, and to someone they
never even met...
I am glad I am "asocial" if to gain your praise I have to be a mindless follower of
nonsensical etiquette and stop thinking for myself altogether.
At least I don't call people I haven't met names or deride or insult them.
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
P.S. (for anyone else watching this idiotic banter I have lowered myself to
entertain, the "crime" I am being pilloried for is to create a post using html on
"their" newsgroup...)
Post by Sjouke Burry
Post by Tim Meddick
In answer to Mr "Ted Davis" -
cut
Post by Tim Meddick
don't worry about it! - feel free to ignore it,
you were born free to do so, just as I was born free
to post it whatever way I see fit!......
Yes, aint we all glad that you are free to behave as an
asocial nitwit!!! Freedom rules.
plonk
Tim Meddick
2010-03-15 20:48:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
So you class my language as [also] acidulous do you?

Well, there you go, just like I said, you're free to feel (and say) what you like...

God bless!

==

Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
< clipped >
....And fighting acidulousness with acidulousness is your way to correct this,
then? ;-).....
< clipped >
Al Dunbar
2010-03-16 01:28:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tim Meddick
So you class my language as [also] acidulous do you?
I felt that it tended to be more acidulous than conciliatory, which might
have been another approach one could have taken...
Post by Tim Meddick
Well, there you go, just like I said, you're free to feel (and say) what you like...
As we all are. And as we all do.

But, speaking of your claiming to have "got[ten] the complainers off the
original respondent's back", you apparently were not quick enough to get in
between Mr. de Boyne Pollard and Stefan Kanthak, who objected even more
strenuously to his use of HTML in a thread called "erase *.tmp also lists
*.tmpl files - how to avoid".

Fortunately for the rest of us, neither you, Ted, nor Sjouke seem able to
match Mr. Kanthak's acidulousness (or acidulocity).

/Al
Post by Tim Meddick
God bless!
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
< clipped >
....And fighting acidulousness with acidulousness is your way to correct
this, then? ;-).....
< clipped >
Twayne
2010-03-15 00:52:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Don't let it get you down, Tim! It's an old but still relevant "rule" that
usenet posts should not be made in HTML. The reason is that many real
newsreaders still do not render HTML or RTF either for that matter, so an
HTML post can come through to those folks as nearly unreadable and full of
HTML tags, paddings, positioning, color, etc.. codes.
For instance: The sentence
"It may instead look like this rather than the normal text you are used to
seeing. ",
in such a newsreader, might come out as:
---------
SRC="file:///E:/Fusion 11 Web Sites//Preview/Autogen/clearpixel.gif"
WIDTH="406" HEIGHT="1" BORDER="0" ALT=""></TD></TR><TR VALIGN="TOP"
ALIGN="LEFT"><TD></TD><TD WIDTH="437" CLASS="TextObject"><!-- [BEGIN
Text4348] --> <!-- [END PRE-Text4348] --><P STYLE="margin-bottom: 0px;">It
may instead look like this rather than the <B>normal</B> text you are used
to seeing.&nbsp; </P>--></TD><TD></TD></TR>
<TR VALIGN="TOP" ALIGN="LEFT"><TD COLSPAN="3" HEIGHT="401"></TD></TR><TR
VALIGN="TOP" ALIGN="LEFT"><TD COLSPAN="3" WIDTH="893" CLASS="TextObject"
STYLE="background-color: rgb(255,255,204); border: 1px solid
rgb(0,0,0);"><!-- [BEGIN Text4343] --> <!-- [END PRE-Text4343] --><P
STYLE="text-align: center
---------
Depending on what created it; in reality it will vary but it's still going
to be just as confusing to try to read. As you can imagine, it would be
pretty unwieldly to try to read for content, in addition to all the wasted
code it takes for just that one sentence and to get ready for the next
object.
On top of that, most readers reading in Plain Text, of which there are a
considerable number, wastes the HTML code since HTMLwon't be interpreted for
those screens.
If a newsgroup does allow, or even prefer, such as the Corel newsgroup,
HTML, they will say so and it will be quite obvious. People that like the
GUI and all the pretty stuff should instead opt for forums instead of
newsgroups, especially usenet newsgroups.
The appearance of a warning against using HTML posts is actually good and
lets the widest audience be capable of viewing and understanding the
posting. It's in no way uncommon nor unexpected to see such warnings and
advice given to those who post in HTML or RTF modes as some clients ID it.

I suspect you're already aware of all this, but for those who weren't, and
wish to adhere to proper netiquette, and since you seem to imply it's news
to you, I figured posting this couldn't hurt.

And one last note: Your cross-post contents are mostly irrelevant and would
only result in more of the HTML non-preferences if anyone should bother to
respond. I've set f'ups to the group I read your message on first. Such a
long list of crossposts is rather crude & rude, actually.

HTH,

Twayne`
Post by Tim Meddick
Well exactly! I certainly was not posting for the benefit
of all those who decided to respond negatively, but it
simply irked me the way in which [some] people jumped all
over a respondent just because he used <html> to create his
post!
They were less than courteous IMHO.
So I wrote ONE post, also in <html>, in support, and got
all this for my trouble (at least I got them off the
original respondent's back).
It just gets me down, now and then, to see how acidulous
people can be...
==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
Post by Al Dunbar
All this talk of rules is somewhat beside the point. The
reason for the rules in the first place still exists: some
usenet participants do so using text-based tools that do
not render the html into what one would see in a browser.
Or in an html aware client. Others set their newsreaders
to work in text only mode because they are more interested
in the information than its presentation. I think what others might have
been trying to get at is
that if you post in such a way that bothers people, well,
what is the benefit to that? /Al
Post by Tim Meddick
Yes, indeed, my very good friend.
I am "asocial" because I dare to defy some unwritten rule.
And some self-appointed enforcers decide that people who
break said rule will be insulted, mocked and otherwise
treated as shamefully as possible, and to someone they
never even met...
I am glad I am "asocial" if to gain your praise I have to
be a mindless follower of
nonsensical etiquette and stop thinking for myself
altogether. At least I don't call people I haven't met names or
deride or insult them. ==
Cheers, Tim Meddick, Peckham, London. :-)
P.S. (for anyone else watching this idiotic banter I have
lowered myself to entertain, the "crime" I am being
pilloried for is to create a post using html on "their"
Post by Sjouke Burry
Post by Tim Meddick
In answer to Mr "Ted Davis" -
cut
Post by Tim Meddick
don't worry about it! - feel free to ignore it,
you were born free to do so, just as I was born free
to post it whatever way I see fit!......
Yes, aint we all glad that you are free to behave as an
asocial nitwit!!! Freedom rules.
plonk
--
--
Newsgroups are great places to get assistance.
But always verify important information with
other sources to be certain you have a clear
understanding of it and that it is accurate.
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard
2010-03-11 23:49:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
<blockquote cite="mid:***@mst.edu" type="cite">
<p>usenet is an ASCII medium</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That's lack of understanding of Usenet on your part, kiddo.&nbsp; "Usenet
is not an ASCII network."<span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; text-align: left;"></span></span>
has been item #12 on Chip Salzenberg's<span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: medium;"><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 16px; line-height: 26px; text-align: left;"></span></span>
Usenet FAQ for roughly a quarter of a century.&nbsp; Go and read it and
learn.&nbsp; There's a big wide world out here; it isn't limited by such
parochialism, and never has been.</p>
</body>
</html>
Ted Davis
2010-03-12 00:55:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html>
*and* setting Followup-To: news.newusers.questions

You must think I'm stupid. I think you are a troll.

Plonk!

--

T.E.D. (***@mst.edu)
George Orwell
2010-03-12 02:37:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard,

Stop Posting in HTML! Stop Hijacking Threads!



Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
https://www.mixmaster.it
Twayne
2010-03-13 02:16:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 11:25:02 +0000, Jonathan de Boyne
Post by Jonathan de Boyne Pollard
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01
Transitional//EN"> <html>
usenet is an ASCII medium - HTML is *not* appreciated, and
for many people is unreadable.
LOL! Whatever THAT means! Do you any concept at all what HTML gives you
and when you're using it? Care to clarify?

HTH,

Twayne`
--
Newsgroups are great places to get assistance.
But always verify important information with
other sources to be certain you have a clear
understanding of it and that it is accurate.
George Orwell
2010-03-12 04:23:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard,

Stop Hijacking Threads!

Stop Posting in HTML!



Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
https://www.mixmaster.it
George Orwell
2010-03-12 02:37:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Jonathan de Boyne Pollard,

Stop Hijacking Threads!

Stop Posting in HTML!



Il mittente di questo messaggio|The sender address of this
non corrisponde ad un utente |message is not related to a real
reale ma all'indirizzo fittizio|person but to a fake address of an
di un sistema anonimizzatore |anonymous system
Per maggiori informazioni |For more info
https://www.mixmaster.it
Loading...